Temporary/Permanent Item costs

[Dave M]

Hi guys,

THis is a continuation of this thread. I decided to put it in it's own topic for ease of finding later.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=232

The tables in the draft equipment book are a good start, but I think they are not quite there - all the relationships between item classes need defining first, otherwise you end up with oddities such as 1/week items costing more than 1/day. I've numbered each point so they can be referred to in the discussion, and put in percentages just to kick off the discussion.



Temporary Item classes:
1. Alchemical potion should be (10%) less than temporary items - harder to use.
2. Self only Scrolls should be (20%) more expensive than temporary item - rarer
3. "Other" Scrolls should be (20%) less expensive than temporary items - harder to use
4. Getting long durational spells (11 day/43 day casts) would have a cost: (50%) the cost of a temporary item

per day vs per week/multiple charges
5. A 1 per week item should be worth 500% the cost of a temporary item
6. A 1 per day item should be worth 800% the cost of a temporary item
7. Additional item charges should cost (75%) of first charge (I know you removed it because it complicates it but otherwise you would always only ever find single charges in items)

rarer spells/invocations
8. Universal spells should cost (80%) the cost of a standard item
9. A primary school spell should cost (150%) the cost of a standard item
10. A purist spell should cost (300%) the cost of a standard item
11. A sect invocation should cost (150%) the cost of a standard item
12. A specialist sect invocation should cost (200%) the cost of a standard item

access to items
13. Restricting items by guild breaks too easily in a world full of unbreakable items being bought and sold, so why not make items purchasable/available by all at the same price.
14. BUT your priest/mage guild will allow you to commission (one?) item you can already cast at standard prices, for personal use.
15. scrap the random merchant venturer's list now we are publishing standard prices - it just makes unnessessary work for Anthony. Better to do IC traders on events/let players sell unwanted random items to each other via the boards

item costs per level/rank
16. How many times more expensive should a rank 1 vs a rank 0 be? AN important thing to define. Once this is defined all the item values can be calculated. for example this table would make high and arcane have jumps in price, as well at 4,7 and 10 (them being top tier in each range)

Rank Base
0 1x
1 1.5x
2 3x
3 5x
4 8x
5 16x
6 20x
7 28x
8 40x
9 48x
10 64x

17. There should be a fixed cost of (5?) dragons to permanently ensorcel/empower a small item. This must be done before you can add spells/invocations

[AnthonyK]

That just makes everything a god dam lot more complicated the tables for items as they are, are hitting the limits of readability if u start adding basic costs multi charge fractinal costing, this should decend into an equasion.
The whole reason for not allowing people to access specialist sect purist ritual wizadry etc is to not remove other peoples specialisums abilities and to reduce the chance of some crippleing combinations
From an ic perspective why would the guilds let others get there specialist stuff.
How easy is it to break? Yes u can pickup odd items from merchants or at thw end of the dungeon but u dont get to pick any spell u like, if somone started commisioning stuff from other auxilariea they would quickly get punative measures.

If u can draw up simple enough adjusted tables it would be worth a look

[sebsmith]

I have a plan (a long way down the line, since it's a huge job to add to my already huge list of huge jobs!) for an IC marketplace, which would function a little bit like other popular online auction sites, and which would allow us to release items for sale, and also for players to put their own items up for sale...

Don't hold your breath for it any time soon though!

[m!g]

Roger and Angel were also thinking of using the "Angels & Demons" pub as a place where characters can buy and sell loot without incurring the 66% charge incurred by the guilds/merchant adventurers.

Also, some players can create potions and items which outlast adventures. These can be sold/exchanged or even given to other auxiliaries.

In character this has obvious benefits for the buyer/seller but also from an Auxiliary perspective this has a big impact because people will generally have more cash to spend on potions/items resulting in better equipped missions. It is just an extension of the Auxiliaries looking out for one another.

And obviously there will be a very simple formula to calculate the price of items:
[item price] = [Rank level] x [Pi] / [amount of alcohol drunk] ^ [size of codpiece/Bra size]
+ [Level of blagger] x [epicness of associated story]

...simples

[sebsmith]

Angels and Demons could be a sort of sub auction; A marketplace where the price of items can be more 'fluid' but where the reliability of the item is also subject to a level of fluidity... A kind of 'chance it' place...

[Dave M]

OK I accept the OOC arguments for not allowing items to be openly purchased and priced according to rarity. But why? Permanent items are pretty much unbreakable - why are they not flooding the markets?

How about this:
Permanent items are massively expensive - they are being stockpiled by the state/guilds for national emergencies? This massive cost is also the reason there are not more of them around. It follows the purchase of such items would be effectively 'permanent loan'. It all makes sense - the costs of creating an item is thus far greater than the price you pay.

Auxiliaries are given special dispensation to have 'guardianship' of items found abroad, on condition that they become possessions of the state upon their death. (hence why Auxiliaries can't just 'will' all their equipment to others when they die)

The merchant venturers are only allowed to trade a certain number of such items. It also follows that insalubrious places like Angels and Demons would be where such things get traded.

Thoughts?

-----


If the above is accepted, and one is explicitly not allowed to trade away the items requisitioned directly from your guild/sect/primary school etc then there is no need for different prices for such items. One table for all, and a note you can only buy guardianship of non-standard and arcane/cosmic level items if you are a member of that sect/school.

Here is a proposal for standard item costs based on the relative values I suggested in the original post.

Screen shot 2014-10-17 at 17.05.47.png

what do you think?

[AnthonyK]

Perm items aren't that easy to make, mechanics not actually in game for making them but read that as the equivalent of being a cosmic caster level of work to lean, so you'd fine a handful in a guild and maybe 1 per speciality depending on the guild size. so they wouldn't really flood the market you wouldn't just be banging them out there should be a much higher concentration of temp items knocking around (something refs are encouraged to remember)
as for cost the economy is slightly skewed because we rarely if ever get auxiliaries to pay for normal items like food or board but 100 dragons for an item would be a hell of a lot for a normal person.

ill take a look at costs later food time

[AnthonyK]

What is base cost? could you replace with actual costs?

I take it 2nd charge and 3rd change costs are actually cost for 2 or 3 charges? otherwise your 2nd & 3rd charge is a lot more and the first?

it doesn't take into account for more difficult invocations/spells to access such as purist

[Dave M]

Base cost represents how many times more expensive a rank 4 should be than a rank 0 for example. It would not need to be listed in the tables in the book, but was used in the spreadsheet.

The formula is: all items cost a multiplier of this base cost*

Yeah prices are cost for item with 2/3 charges. My bad on title naming.

I was planning on making specialist tables but I wonder whether we need a different set of item costs. You can only buy spells that you can already access (and cannot trade them). IC justification for same price: A seer item would not be rare to a seer for example - they are soley surrounded by such items.



* (plus 1 per rank to ensure a higher ranked spell/invocation always costs at least 1 more than the rank below))

[AnthonyK]

I get the costs are multiples of the base, but what are you suggesting as the base? a current value or something new? ill find it easier with both the multiplier and a value to compare.

I agree to some extent on the specialisms cost however, there should be a premium as they are harder to get and if your say in the University and a battle mage, you can request and buy something form the fire purist (which have some of the more powerful things) list so there needs to be a premium to give some differentiation between buying something standard or a little more unique